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This is a partial thread on alt.sys.pdp10, from December 19, 2010 to January 4, 2011.
Rich Alderson reports that David Long "worked at the U of Chicago
Graduate School of Business computer facility", and also that he
"wouldn't let more than 1 person at any particular institution
have access to his version."
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From: Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:59:28 -0600
Organization: Canine Computer Center
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I am compiling the 501 point version of Crowther and Woods
Colossal Cave Adventure on the DEC-20 at PDPPlanet. One thing
I fixed in the code was octal constants. The version of PDP-10
FORTRAN that the author used... flagged octal constants by
beginning them with a colon. The DEC-20 FORTRAN likes octal
constants to start with a double quote. That was easy to fix.
The problem I am having now concerns what appears to be some sort
of system calls or perhaps some type of database calls. Each of
these subroutine calls has one or two dollar signs ("$") in them.
One routine called is:
CALL SEM$WT(MONITO(ME),CODE)
This appears in some places with two other letters after the
dollar sign in some of the FORTRAN code. Could it have something
to do with setting or checking semaphores???
Another routine is called:
CALL DUPLX$("100000)
This routine is called with different octal constants.
There is a routine:
CALL BREAK$(.TRUE.)
This routine is always passed either .TRUE. or .FALSE.
There are two routines:
CALL SAVE$$(VEC,'ADVE',4,CODE)
CALL SRCH$$(1,'ADVE.BASE',9,1,TYPE,CODE)
Since each of these has *two* dollar signs, could they be from
a related database system or something???
Finally, there is:
CALL CLOS$A(1)
Is anyone here familiar with these subroutines??? If you can give
me a reference to look up, that would be great too... Any help
would be appreciated.
(I have googled with *no* luck so far...)
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
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From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: 20 Dec 2010 00:57:59 -0500
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Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
> I am compiling the 501 point version of Crowther and Woods
> Colossal Cave Adventure on the DEC-20 at PDPPlanet. One thing
> I fixed in the code was octal constants. The version of PDP-10
> FORTRAN that the author used... flagged octal constants by
> beginning them with a colon. The DEC-20 FORTRAN likes octal
> constants to start with a double quote. That was easy to fix.
The 501 point version that I am familiar with was a rework on Tops-20 by
David Long at the University of Chicago, done on the Graduate School of
Business DEC-20s where he was an operator.
I think the original was written in F40 for TENEX, then ported to WAITS
(Tops-10 related but not).
I think you may have to blackbox the functions--or spend some time in
DDT watching what they do in a binary.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...
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From: Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:07:49 -0600
Organization: Canine Computer Center
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On 12/19/10 11:57 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
>
>> I am compiling the 501 point version of Crowther and Woods
>> Colossal Cave Adventure on the DEC-20 at PDPPlanet. One thing
>> I fixed in the code was octal constants. The version of PDP-10
>> FORTRAN that the author used... flagged octal constants by
>> beginning them with a colon. The DEC-20 FORTRAN likes octal
>> constants to start with a double quote. That was easy to fix.
>
> The 501 point version that I am familiar with was a rework on Tops-20 by
> David Long at the University of Chicago, done on the Graduate School of
> Business DEC-20s where he was an operator.
>
Yup... that's the advent I am compiling. The source code came from
the Interactive Fiction Archive.
> I think the original was written in F40 for TENEX, then ported to WAITS
> (Tops-10 related but not).
>
Thanks! ISTM that I heard about F40 somewhere before... So WAITS
is an operating system???
> I think you may have to blackbox the functions--or spend some time in
> DDT watching what they do in a binary.
>
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
===========================================================================
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From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: 21 Dec 2010 01:41:54 -0500
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Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
> On 12/19/10 11:57 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
>> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
>>> I am compiling the 501 point version of Crowther and Woods
>>> Colossal Cave Adventure on the DEC-20 at PDPPlanet. One thing
>>> I fixed in the code was octal constants. The version of PDP-10
>>> FORTRAN that the author used... flagged octal constants by
>>> beginning them with a colon. The DEC-20 FORTRAN likes octal
>>> constants to start with a double quote. That was easy to fix.
>> The 501 point version that I am familiar with was a rework on Tops-20 by
>> David Long at the University of Chicago, done on the Graduate School of
>> Business DEC-20s where he was an operator.
> Yup... that's the advent I am compiling. The source code came from
> the Interactive Fiction Archive.
Interesting. There was a time when Dave wouldn't let more than 1 person
at any particular institution have access to his version. I wasn't the
person at Chicago.
>> I think the original was written in F40 for TENEX, then ported to WAITS
>> (Tops-10 related but not).
> Thanks! ISTM that I heard about F40 somewhere before... So WAITS
> is an operating system???
F40 was the original FORTRAN IV for the PDP-10 (and PDP-6? I honestly don't
know), written by an outside firm under contract to DEC.
WAITS was the OS run at the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory on
their PDP-6 -> PDP-10 system. It forked off from what became Tops-10 long
before that name was applied to the DEC operating system (or so I have been
told).
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...
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From: "Sarr J. Blumson" <sarr.blumson@alum.dartmouth.org>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:10:25 +0000 (UTC)
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Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
[Stuff relevant to the original topic deleted :-)]
: F40 was the original FORTRAN IV for the PDP-10 (and PDP-6? I honestly don't
: know), written by an outside firm under contract to DEC.
I believe it was called F4 on the PDP-6. The company was Digitek, which built
a portable compiler targeted at small memory machines (the SDS 910 was the
first, IIRC) and then ported it to a number of machines, including the 6 and
Fortran G on the 360s. DEC then did some really cool/really ugly (depending
on who you ask) extensions. ADP (for one) did some more.
--
--------
Sarr Blumson sarr.blumson@alum.dartmouth.org
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~sarr/
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From: jmfbahciv <See....@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: 21 Dec 2010 14:40:11 GMT
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Sarr J. Blumson wrote:
> Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
>
> [Stuff relevant to the original topic deleted :-)]
>
> : F40 was the original FORTRAN IV for the PDP-10 (and PDP-6? I honestly
don't
> : know), written by an outside firm under contract to DEC.
>
> I believe it was called F4 on the PDP-6. The company was Digitek, which
built
> a portable compiler targeted at small memory machines (the SDS 910 was the
> first, IIRC) and then ported it to a number of machines, including the 6 and
> Fortran G on the 360s. DEC then did some really cool/really ugly (depending
> on who you ask) extensions. ADP (for one) did some more.
>
I don't remember F40 being FORTRAN IV. It was an extended II with disk
I/O support. There wasn't any character data manipulation available
with F40.
/BAH
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From: Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 20:32:22 -0600
Organization: Canine Computer Center
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On 12/21/10 12:41 AM, Rich Alderson wrote:
> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
>
>> On 12/19/10 11:57 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
>
>>> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
>
>>>> I am compiling the 501 point version of Crowther and Woods
>>>> Colossal Cave Adventure on the DEC-20 at PDPPlanet. One thing
>>>> I fixed in the code was octal constants. The version of PDP-10
>>>> FORTRAN that the author used... flagged octal constants by
>>>> beginning them with a colon. The DEC-20 FORTRAN likes octal
>>>> constants to start with a double quote. That was easy to fix.
>
>>> The 501 point version that I am familiar with was a rework on Tops-20 by
>>> David Long at the University of Chicago, done on the Graduate School of
>>> Business DEC-20s where he was an operator.
>
>> Yup... that's the advent I am compiling. The source code came from
>> the Interactive Fiction Archive.
>
> Interesting. There was a time when Dave wouldn't let more than 1 person
> at any particular institution have access to his version. I wasn't the
> person at Chicago.
>
I downloaded the code via the link on Rick Adams adventure page,
but you can download the source for the 501 point version directly
from:
<http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/source/advent.tar.Z>
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
===========================================================================
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From: Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 20:08:39 -0600
Organization: Canine Computer Center
Message-ID: <ife579$9he$1@news.eternal-september.org>
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On 12/28/10 10:35 AM, Morten Reistad wrote:
> In article<ifbt5b$ekf$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>> I got all the FORTRAN routines for the 501 point adventure to
>> compile separately using the COMPILE command, but I am *not* smart
>> enough to use the LINK command... :-)
>
> If you have a save$ enabled system, then there are mighty dragons
> in the Primos linkage.
>
From the legends I have heard, the 501 point adventure was
developed on a PDP-10 by David Long (at the University of Chicago???).
However, the source I got from the Interactive Fiction Archive
seems to have been ported (or attempted to be ported) to a PR1ME
at one time or another. There are just too many Primos hooks in
the code that a Primos port seems the right explanation.
I am trying to compile the code on the PDP Planet DEC-20, running
TOPS 20 and obviously a flavor of DEC FORTRAN/66.
>> So I catenated all the FORTRAN source into *one* file and use the
>> EXECUTE command to compile, link, and execute it.
>>
>> The link step found some missing routines which ISTM should be
>> system-provided routines, or may translate to a system-provided
>> routine in TOPS 20 FORTRAN. These are things like TNOUA(),
>> INTS(), and TIMDAT(). I'll make an exhaustive list of these...
>>
>> But where am I getting all the "Multiply-defined global symbol"
>> errors and the module DUMERR??? I'm sure I stepped in something
>> unpleasant, but I am at a loss on how to proceed with this.
>> (Google was *not* much of a friend here... ;-) )
>
> The Primos manuals are on bitsaver.
>
Thanks! I will look for those Primos manuals. They will probably
explain a lot.
>> The link step got the following bunch of errors:
>>
>> LINK: Loading
>> %LNKMDS Multiply-defined global symbol A.ILC
>> Detected in module DUMERR from file<SRC.FORTRAN>FORLIB.REL.1
>> Defined value = 203364, this value = 214445
>>
>> [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
>>
>> %LNKMDS Multiply-defined global symbol %XPVAL
>> Detected in module DUMERR from file<SRC.FORTRAN>FORLIB.REL.1
>> Defined value = 177373, this value = 214553
>
> cannot see I recognise those. Primos symbols generally have
> $ as the reserved character, tops20 uses %.
>
That's a cause I'm compiling on TOPS 20... :-)
>> ?LNKUGS 77 undefined global symbols
>> TNOUA 146424
>
> outputs string to console, no crlf. Called with string, length.
> #define TNOUA(s,l) (write(1,s,l)) in c.
Yep. I found this with my pal Google. It will be easy to replace,
as it's only used to output five blanks. So the replacement call
only needs to output five blanks.
>> INTL 152304
> memory is vague on this. Try atol()
I do *not* think that INTL() or INTS() are converting ascii to
integer. The arguments always seem to be integers to begin with.
Maybe the Primos manuals will shed light on this.
>> RS 137761
>> %FARG3 0
>> U.RERD 166705
>> %QUIET 211331
>> D.BSTP 164206
>> U.ERR 170562
>> OR 147411
>> %EDDB 166761
>> FMT.LS 176150
>> %CRLF 175142
>> %JIBLK 0
>> %FLIDX 200230
>> %FSECT 201306
>> %DECHF 0
>> I.BAT 177617
>> TIMDAT 153734
> gets date and time
>> %FREPG 164054
>> %FARG1 0
>> %OCCOC 171443
>> %SAVAC 211310
>> LS 151500
>> %UDBAD 206611
>> D.TTY 170616
>> %ERRSZ 200024
>> I.PID 164134
>> %OVNUM 175763
>> %FREBL 211316
>> XOR 155155
> primos fortran has and,or,xor,not builtins as functions
>> %GTPGS 163746
>> %ERRBK 200013
>> %NAMLN 177615
>> %HALT 177755
>> %CPBLK 211315
>> %FSTAT 0
>> I.DAYT 211337
>> %MVBLK 210344
>> %CPARG 174465
>> U.TTY 163446
>> %GTBLK 210357
>> %FARG2 0
>> %CCMSK 171442
>> %MVSPC 167556
>> %DDBTA 177560
>> %ERRCT 211342
>> %OVPRG 175617
>> %FCODE 211324
>> %PC1 177433
>> AU.ACS 177536
>> %SVFMT 175652
>> %JBASE 211321
>> %MSPAD 171012
>> %ISAVE 174510
>> %PGCNT 211327
>> %MSLVL 0
>> I.RUNT 211335
>> %FUNCX 211326
>> AND 151503
>> %LALAD 177671
>> %MMDEB 211312
>> %FAREA 176230
>> %ERRSB 200025
>> %FNBLK 211325
>> %SAVIO 174565
>> %ERRLM 177773
>> INTS 152135
>> %ABFLG 211305
>> %BLCNT 211317
>> G.PRP 171265
>> %ALCHF 0
>> %STADD 201277
>> %MSLJ 171013
>> %GTSPC 167570
>> I.XSIR 177426
>> RT 137767
>> %OCLIT 172741
>> [LNKNSA No start address]
>
> The % symbols are most probably from Tops20. Many primos
> tools used "%" as the C preprocessor uses "#", as a preamble
> to directives. I am 96.2% sure no primos code used "%" as a
> user-visible high level symbol. (It was used extensively
> in PMA, the macro assembler).
>
>> %LNKDLT Execution deleted
>
It's prescient that you mentioned PMA code. There are a couple of
PMA files with the advent distribution. I guess they will *not* do
me much good on a DEC-20... :-) The assembly code is *not*
referenced from the FORTRAN code, thankfully.
I am replacing the missing functions with FORTRAN coded routines,
and I'll see how many of the link errors vanish.
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
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From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: 28 Dec 2010 22:15:34 -0500
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Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
> On 12/28/10 10:35 AM, Morten Reistad wrote:
>> In article<ifbt5b$ekf$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>>> I got all the FORTRAN routines for the 501 point adventure to
>>> compile separately using the COMPILE command, but I am *not* smart
>>> enough to use the LINK command... :-)
>> If you have a save$ enabled system, then there are mighty dragons
>> in the Primos linkage.
> From the legends I have heard, the 501 point adventure was
> developed on a PDP-10 by David Long (at the University of Chicago???).
It's not a legend. Dave was an acquaintance, back when I worked at the U of
Chicago Comp Center and he worked at the U of Chicago Graduate School of
Business computer facility. He let me see the parser routine once (I think I
may still have the printout) since he knew I was a linguist interested in,
among other things, natural language processing.
[snip]
> I am trying to compile the code on the PDP Planet DEC-20, running
> TOPS 20 and obviously a flavor of DEC FORTRAN/66.
There is no such animal. We run TOPS-20 on an XKL Toad-1 system, a KL-10
superset clone. (I worked for XKL at the time that we sold this particular
Toad-1 to Paul Allen. In point of fact, I was credited with making that
sale, and built a relationship which led to my current position.)
We do have a big orange KL-10 labeled "DECSYSTEM-20" at the factory, but it's
running Tops-10. You might have as much trouble porting there, since Dave did
not know the latter OS, and may have used TOPS-20 native calls in some routines.
:-)
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...
===========================================================================
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From: Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 23:04:19 -0600
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On 12/28/10 9:15 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
>
>> On 12/28/10 10:35 AM, Morten Reistad wrote:
>
>>> In article<ifbt5b$ekf$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>>> I got all the FORTRAN routines for the 501 point adventure to
>>>> compile separately using the COMPILE command, but I am *not* smart
>>>> enough to use the LINK command... :-)
>
>>> If you have a save$ enabled system, then there are mighty dragons
>>> in the Primos linkage.
>
>> From the legends I have heard, the 501 point adventure was
>> developed on a PDP-10 by David Long (at the University of Chicago???).
>
> It's not a legend. Dave was an acquaintance, back when I worked at the U of
> Chicago Comp Center and he worked at the U of Chicago Graduate School of
> Business computer facility. He let me see the parser routine once (I think I
> may still have the printout) since he knew I was a linguist interested in,
> among other things, natural language processing.
>
Rich, my intent was only to point out that *I* have *no* direct
knowledge of the origins of the code. ISTM that you are the first
person I have contact with... who actually knew Dave Long.
It's interesting that Dave kept the code so "close to the vest". I
had *not* heard that before you posted it.
>
>> I am trying to compile the code on the PDP Planet DEC-20, running
>> TOPS 20 and obviously a flavor of DEC FORTRAN/66.
>
> There is no such animal. We run TOPS-20 on an XKL Toad-1 system, a KL-10
> superset clone. (I worked for XKL at the time that we sold this particular
> Toad-1 to Paul Allen. In point of fact, I was credited with making that
> sale, and built a relationship which led to my current position.)
>
> We do have a big orange KL-10 labeled "DECSYSTEM-20" at the factory, but it's
> running Tops-10. You might have as much trouble porting there, since Dave did
> not know the latter OS, and may have used TOPS-20 native calls in some routines.
>
> :-)
>
Sorry... I overstepped my meager knowledge here. I hope that for
purposes of compiling the adventure code, my "delusion" will be
adequate. I am ignorant of the different DEC PDP-10 models, as
well as *not* knowing much about the Toad and Foonly systems.
Thanks to Morten Reistad, I am finding that someone put a lot of
Primos stuff in the FORTRAN code. I wonder about the provenance of
the code because of this.
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+
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From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN Code
Date: 04 Jan 2011 16:06:40 -0500
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Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
> On 12/28/10 9:15 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
>> Charles Richmond<frizzle@tx.rr.com> writes:
>>> From the legends I have heard, the 501 point adventure was
>>> developed on a PDP-10 by David Long (at the University of Chicago???).
>> It's not a legend.
[snip]
> Rich, my intent was only to point out that *I* have *no* direct
> knowledge of the origins of the code. ISTM that you are the first
> person I have contact with... who actually knew Dave Long.
Sorry, I just wanted to keep it staight that unlike the usual FOAF "history"
that passes over the wires and airwaves of the Information Autobahn(TM), this
is certifiably true.
> It's interesting that Dave kept the code so "close to the vest". I
> had *not* heard that before you posted it.
Especially since Will Crowther and Don Woods were so willing to give it out.
"Interesting"? Bloody irritating at the time!
>>> I am trying to compile the code on the PDP Planet DEC-20, running
>>> TOPS 20 and obviously a flavor of DEC FORTRAN/66.
>> There is no such animal. We run TOPS-20 on an XKL Toad-1 system, a KL-10
>> superset clone. (I worked for XKL at the time that we sold this particular
>> Toad-1 to Paul Allen. In point of fact, I was credited with making that
>> sale, and built a relationship which led to my current position.)
>> We do have a big orange KL-10 labeled "DECSYSTEM-20" at the factory, but
>> it's running Tops-10. You might have as much trouble porting there, since
>> Dave did not know the latter OS, and may have used TOPS-20 native calls in
>> some routines.
>> :-)
> Sorry... I overstepped my meager knowledge here. I hope that for
> purposes of compiling the adventure code, my "delusion" will be
> adequate. I am ignorant of the different DEC PDP-10 models, as
> well as *not* knowing much about the Toad and Foonly systems.
I guess the smiley was too small. Please don't apologize.
Again, I just wanted to keep the record straight as to precisely what hardware
we have made available to the general public. You as a user-mode programmer
should not be able to tell the difference between the XKL-1 CPU on a Toad-1
system and the KL-10PV CPU on a DECSYSTEM-2065 system except in very specific
circumstances (larger virtual memory available, for example).
> Thanks to Morten Reistad, I am finding that someone put a lot of
> Primos stuff in the FORTRAN code. I wonder about the provenance of
> the code because of this.
Me, too.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...
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From: Charles Richmond <frizzle@tx.rr.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: 501 Point Adventure Links!!! (Was: Trouble Compiling Old DEC FORTRAN
Code)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 22:03:48 -0600
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After thinking on this a lot, and getting a great deal of
*helpful* advice here!!! I have located the problem that kept the
501 point Adventure from linking:
Lurking among a massive amount of comments at the first of the
FORTRAN source, there was the following line:
SUBROUTINE MAIN
So actually the linker was seeing *no* main program at all!!!
When I commented out that line, the linking problems disappeared!
I want to thank everyone here for all the help!!! I do know
FORTRAN IV pretty well, but I come up *way* short on the PDP-10
and TOPS 20 specifics for the DEC version of FORTRAN IV. I've
learned a lot here, and I'm continuing to learn a lot about the
DEC FORTRAN version.
Now at least I can run the program and debug from there...
I'll keep you posted on my "progress"... ;-)
--
+----------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond |
| |
| plano dot net at aquaporin4 dot com |
+----------------------------------------+